DOMestic Bdsm and Female Domination

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admin: January to March 09 update
From: "Christine" at u4ds.com / MsChristine.com
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 23:44:53 -0000

Hello,

I've now completed and uploaded the January to March 2009 update
to the members web site.

Supporters of DOMestic can see the latest at

http://u4ds.com/2009/03/march_21st_2009.shtml

and access or search the last 12 years of DOMestic.

If you don't have a password you can search at least 3 months of
DOMestic using the search box at...

http://u4ds.com/

sincerely,
Christine at u4ds.com

You can support DOMestic at
http://u4ds.com/password

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C: Madame de Sade - pain and verbal punishment
Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 01:18:18 -0000
From: "David" at u4ds.com

Hello,

As the Marquis de Sade is responsible for the "S" in BDSM, I'm
always interested when the mainstream media gives coverage to
things "de Sade". So I tuned in tonight to the BBC's Newsnight
Review to hear the critics discuss Madame de Sade, a 1965 play
written by Yukio Mishima and currently being staged at Wyndhams
Theatre, London.

Named as one of the 'powerful women in theatre', Dame Judi Dench
plays the outraged mother-in-law of the Marquis. Rosamund Pike
plays his wife Renee. The two women previously appeared together
in the 2002 James Bond film Die Another Day. The stage play of
Madame de Sade also features Frances Barber as a countess
fascinated by de Sade.

BBC news reports that Madame de Sade received mixed reviews, but
the three critics I just listened to quite literally "rubbished"
it. Tony Parsons opined that the playwright would be ignored
were it not for the fact that "he topped himself". Miranda
Sawyer who thought the play "rubbish" agreed with Jonathan
Freedland that the play missed the opportunity to explore so
much.

The play ostensibly considers how the debauchery of the
notorious Marquis de Sade affected his wife Renee. A subject
that could be very interesting territory. Perhaps the
opportunity was missed in favour of reflecting the author's own
fascination with "the beauty of pain, sex and death" as
suggested by Daily Express reviewer Paul Callan.

Even with such a potentially interesting subject of Madame de
Sade, the play is reportedly tedious, heavy going, wooden and
weary. Michael Billington of The Guardian thought the acting
breathtaking and the production visually stunning but the play
itself "Higher Tosh". Quentin Letts described it as "115 minutes
of verbal and visual punishment".

sincerely,
David at Ms-Christine.com

Download "Games People Play" by David at
http://www.u4ds.com/manuals

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Re: C: men who top from the bottom - submissive or not?
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 09:58:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: Miss Stress - Saber

Mistress P /sub_arub wrote:

>Is it possible that submissive men who top from the bottom
>don't realize they are doing it (if left uncorrected)? And if
>the submissive continues to top from the bottom, even after
>being corrected a number of times, would you say he is truly a
>submissive?

From my personal experiences, if a man I'm playing with has
limited real life experience, then I find that he will have more
of a tendency to top from the bottom.

Is it correctable? It is *IF* he is seeking to be a submissive
partner. If he is not, and only wants to have done to him what
appeals to him, then he will continue to top from the bottom.

I detest the word "true" when dealing with D/s. Some have told
me I'm not a true dominant due to the fact that I do allow my
boys a little room to be 'sammy', and then I've had others who
highly consider me to be a "true" dominant because I have no
issues or qualms about putting a boy out of my service.

What I would suggest in this case is communication. Find out
what he seeks from a D/s relationship. One of my primary ways of
"screening" a new boy is to have him give me as detailed a "day
in the life" as possible and then we go from there.

Sincerely,
Saber
AKA Miss Stress

"Vocabulary enables us to interpret and to express. If you have
a limited vocabulary, you will also have a limited vision and a
limited future." - Jim Rohn

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Re: C: dominant woman - only in a drunken stupor
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 10:20:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Miss Stress - Saber

"Darryl" nuked potatoes wrote:

>"Kink is a man thing probably brought on by the way he was
>raised and of course having strong women around him."

Define Kink, please. Because I strongly disagree based upon my
definition of kink, so I'd like to know yours. You can give
examples if you want.

Saber

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Re: C: dominant woman - only in a drunken stupor
Date: 21 Mar 2009 09:30:28 -0000
From: steve

Initially I was somewhat irritated by Mr Potatoes ludicrous
sweeping generalisations; a person who has been with us for many
years seemed to have become a troll. However, he has caused such
a wonderful wave of invective and opinion from intelligent and
articulate dominant Women that I say... Carry on nuked!

pussikat steve

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Re: C: dominant woman - only in a drunken stupor
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 09:38:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Miss Stress - Saber

nuked potatoes wrote:

>I don't think kink (Dominant Women definition should be
>discussed here) is really fair for most Women

It depends nuked. Personally I find fisting a boy or paddling
him with my nice mahogany wooden paddle with its carved out
holes *e-x-t-r-e-m-e-l-y* arousing for me. Isn't that kink? How
is it not fair to me if this is something I enjoy?

>Even professional Dommes are in great need to be accepted

How so? In what ways do they need acceptance? Are you speaking
legally, or as in being accepted by their peers? Give me a
little more

>it is not what they want or love

And _you_ know this to be fact *how*?

>they are hard about love because they were hurt

Again... And _you_ know this to be fact *how*?

>They claim power but it is not their true love, like any of
>us..... and like all men they need to love. So again i say
>there is no such thing as a dominant woman

nuked, you have a way of looking at life in the manner that
comes across to me of "well, if I can't find someone who meets
all of my personal criteria in order for this person to be
'dominant' then they just don't exist". Which is such a crock of
crap. Because once again I disagree with you that there "is no
such thing as a dominant woman."

Saber
AKA Miss Stress

"Vocabulary enables us to interpret and to express. If you have
a limited vocabulary, you will also have a limited vision and a
limited future." - Jim Rohn

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Re: C: Is kink really fair for most Women?
From: Madamplz
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 10:06:54 EDT

Ms Christine wrote:

>"I'm a dominant woman who has come to enjoy kink because my
>man loves it. That doesn't mean that all women are like me."

Conversely, I am a dominant woman whose husband came to enjoy my
kink because I love it. It doesn't mean that all women are like
me in that respect but I've known quite a few who are. The
dominant women I know ignore men who drink so as to cry in their
beer. Likewise these women couldn't be bothered with men who
believe they couldn't possibly be dominant without a male.

A man who feels this way should consider the possibility that he
has little to offer a dominant woman and that may be the reason
none are in sight.

Madam

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Re: C: Is kink really fair for most Women?
From: Madamplz
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 12:08:14 EDT

nuked wrote:

>And that was my point - a Woman if in love will do :-) it is
>not how a woman is. A man gives his woman power

This is your problem in a nutshell. What I heard you saying
above is that you're perfectly willing to use a woman for your
purposes, even a woman who might truly care for you. The very
foundation on which you build a relationship has to do with use,
not love, nor devotion. Doesn't sound very submissive when you
isolate it down to your essential philosophy, does it.

Additionally you believe that you are the source of a woman's
power. That belief causes you to seek out powerless women onto
whom you are able to project your own interests. Conversely, you
attract women who feel they are powerless by giving them a
scenario in which you both pretend she is the source of power in
the relationship.

My guess is that you do this in order to avoid fully
relinquishing control to a truly empowered woman. It's your
safety valve. You "allow" a partner to participate in this
pretense until you are dissatisfied with her level of control,
or her attempt to control you in a way that puts you outside of
your comfort zone. At that point you simply show her the light
of day and expose the game for what it is. She may able to be
talked back into this game for awhile but most women eventually
see you in the light of day, too, which means you end up
exposing yourself as a user.

Madam

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Re: C: Is kink really fair for most Women?
Date: 21 Mar 2009 00:55:28 -0000
From: MichaelK

I think nuked's problem is that he fails to realize that women
(and men) are different.

But Madamplz's response possibly implies that the ideal is a
fully empowered, dominant woman.

Someone once suggested that in rough figures about one third of
people will never ever want to talk or read about kink, about
one third will (at the right time) be interested to read or talk
about it, but never do anything, and the remaining third will
(at the right time with the right person), enjoy some kinky
activities.

Of the last third about one third of those will enjoy kink
enough to want to do this kink with their next partner.

This rough guide suggests that about 1 in 9 (about 11%) of
people are the committed kinksters.

One of the problems I see with much discussion of BDSM is that
so much focus is given to this 11%.

We tend to forget about the other 22% of people who enjoy kink
with the right partner, but then are happy to become vanilla
with the next.

My current partner, Ada, is enjoying practicing Devotional Sex
with me. But I am sure that with her next partner she will
return to vanilla.

While there are of course many kinky relationships where BOTH
people really want kink as part of their relationship, I am sure
that, given the numbers, most kinky relationships have one
person who is "kink is really wanted", and the other "I would be
happy to not be kinky, but I'm enjoying practicing kink with you
now".

Most of these "mixed" couples probably enjoy a slightly milder
kink than the full-on BDSM that dominates the Internet.

Anyone reading the story of my first date with Ada:
devotionalsex.com/15real_ada_1intro.html
or the Blog of our ongoing activities:
devotionalsex.com/15blog_ada1.html
will see that Ada is NOT dominant.

On our first date I offered Ada something new and different. She
tried it, liked it (and me), and we continue to BOTH enjoy what
we are doing.

As a Mistress Ada is a failure. But, like most women, she does
not want to be a Mistress.

As a Devotional Sex Princess, with its milder version of FemDom,
Ada is fantastic.

I think the BDSM world needs to do a better job in appreciating
the success of women such as Ada.

They also need to do a better job of appreciating kinky people
such as myself who do not actually want a Mistress/slave
relationship, but very much do want the milder experience of
Devotional Sex.

As a full submissive I am a failure. But I think I make a great
Devotional Sex Knight.

Some people are fully kinky. Nuked - fully empowered dominant
women do exist.

Some people only do kink because their partner suggested or
wants it. As long as both partners enjoy what happens, then this
is a good thing.

Cheers,
MichaelK
Devotional Sex

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Re: C: Is kink really fair for most Women?
From: Darryl - nuked potatoes
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 19:51:57 -0600

Ms Christine wrote:

>Your original point/s were not very well made at all, they
>consisted of broad and sweeping generalisation that dominant
>and/or kinky women don't exist. That is just plain wrong.

Yes I agree i feel like I have come full circle. I do believe
there are no dominant Women. The real strength in Women is a
man, as it should be. The strength of a man is treating that
Woman and all people with

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Re: C: Is kink really fair for most Women?
From: Christine at u4ds.com / MsChristine.com
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 02:02:20 -0000

Nuked,

Your message seems incomplete, ending as it does with the word
"with". Also, your meaning is unclear. First you agree that you
are just plain wrong, then you start to make a point that you
still believe you are right. Which is it?

sincerely,
Christine at Ms-Christine.com

Get your DOMestic password at
http://u4ds.com/password

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Re: C: Is kink really fair for most Women?
From: Darryl - nuked potatoes
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 22:01:05 -0600

Hi Ms Christine,

I just try to stir the proverbial pot. You know that. But it is
true I do not believe Women were ever to be Dominant in a sexual
way. Women are nurturing, mothers sisters and daughters.
Dominance on a Woman's part is the respect she commands by being
her true self not some pervy idea a Man comes up with.

A Matriarchal society would be a failure as Women can't get
along with Women they are much worse then Men. A man can have
respect and loyalty to another man and keep his honour, women
can not come close to this.

There is no such thing as a dominant Woman.

warmly Yours
Darryl aka nuked potatoes

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Re: C: Is kink really fair for most Women?
Date: 22 Mar 2009 00:01:21 -0000
From: MichaelK

I think the next step in nuked's (very flawed) logic must be
that all men are dominant, and thus there is no such thing as a
submissive man.

With no dominant women or submissive men, DOMestic would not
exist, and thus nuked's post would not exist.

Having now eliminated nuked's post in a puff of logic, I suggest
that the rest of us who know dominant women, submissive men, and
DOMestic do exist, move on and no longer waste time with nuked's
nonsense.

Cheers,
MichaelK

Devotional Sex

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Re: C: Is kink really fair for most Women?
From: "David" at u4ds.com
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 01:37:51 -0000

Hello,

MichaelK wrote:

>I think the next step in nuked's (very flawed) logic must be

It's hard to say what it must be, since he fails to answer the
most basic of questions designed to establish what he's trying
to say.

Saber / Miss Stress just recently invited him to define what he
means by kink, and Christine and others have already asked him
similar questions. I put some effort into My Dominant Women
definition post to help him work out what it is that he thinks
doesn't exist and it was simply ignored.

But as Nuked will not define his own thoughts, I'll play Nuked's
advocate for a moment and hazard a guess at what he' trying to
say.

>that all men are dominant

He does seem to be saying that men were designed that way, and
that being otherwise is deviant and not manly.

>and thus there is no such thing as a submissive man.

I think he is saying there are submissive men, and that it is
those who have thought up the "pervy idea" that women do exist
who are what we call Dominant Women.

>With no dominant women or submissive men, DOMestic would not
>exist, and thus nuked's post would not exist.

I imagine that Nuked, when sober, could argue that DOMestic
would still exist, but might thus consist only of submissive men
pursuing their "pervy idea", and our women followers who we men
are being unfair to. Thus his question "Is kink really fair for
most Women" is the title Christine gave to this thread.

>Having now eliminated nuked's post in a puff of logic,

Logic? Hmmmm.... Eliminated with the "Consequences" technique
might be more accurate.

>I suggest that the rest of us who know dominant women,
>submissive men, and DOMestic do exist, move on and no longer
>waste time with nuked's nonsense.

I'm still prepared to waste my time on him, but if he wants to
have a discussion directly with me he'll need to start being
courteous enough to answer any questions I put to him.

Meantime, without much feedback I'm just going to conclude that
Nuked is beating himself up because he is conflicted. I'd
surmise that his possibly unconscious thought process is that he
really ought to be a "real man" and lead his woman the way men
are supposed to, and that he should stop this pervy stuff which
is so unfair on them.

If I'm right Nuked.... The cure is to first learn to love
yourself and who you are. You'll probably be a better lover of
others after you can love yourself. You'll certainly be more
attractive as who you really are, once you love who you are.

Masochism is a joyous experience if you love yourself.
If you don't, it is likely to be sad.

sincerely,
David at Ms-Christine.com

Download "Prickteasing" by David at
http://www.u4ds.com/manuals

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S: Anniversary Surprise - Chapter Thirteen
From: Shoekisser
Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 22:48:56 +0000

First chapter is at:-
http://u4ds.com/2008/11/anniversary_surprise.shtml

Anniversary Surprise

Chapter Thirteen

So, things got back to a relatively normal state.

The big question is, "Was her campaign to feminize me a success?
I'll let you be the judge. Here's the way things stand now.

The shirt, pants, socks and shoes I wear to work are definitely
masculine. My eyebrows have partially grown out, so my facial
features are close to being masculine. The women at work won't
let me forget what they witnessed. Every new hire hears all
about me shortly after she starts, and gets to see me in action
at the next party. As new women join my Pilates and ballet
classes, they too soon learn all about me. My wife hasn't
invited any of my classmates to a party, but I suspect it's only
a matter of time.

My attire when I attend classes is less masculine, although I am
able to wear sweats and running shoes to and from class. The
color and style of my leotard, tights, and ballet shoes could be
worn by either men or women. Not overly masculine clothing, but
much less embarrassing than a tutu. Since most ballerinas don't
have noticeable boobs, I can get by without wearing a bra.

In Pilates, I dress to fit in, like one of the girls. My crop
top and capris have also migrated away from pink to blue and
other gender-neutral colors. I go bra-less here also.

My running clothes were all purchased in the women's section,
although you can't tell from looking at them. They are in colors
that are gender neutral.

My wife entered me in a Halloween 10K race, where costumes were
encouraged. Naturally she insisted I run in the pink tutu,
tights, and leotard with pink running shoes, and my hair in an
up sweep. I won a prize for the costume

She found a pair of Mary Janes with rubber soles about 2" thick,
and decided that would be sufficient padding to run in. I ran in
them once. They created a sensation, but really hurt my feet, so
she hasn't insisted on a repeat performance.

The last time we were shopping for running gear she spotted some
running skirts, which are the latest craze for women. She
pointed them out, looked at me with a strange expression, and
said, "Cute". I thought that was the end of it, but I should
have known better.

When we got to the exit she saw a poster advertising a fund-
raising race to support breast cancer research. "That's it.
We'll buy you a pink running skirt and you can wear it in that
race."

It hasn't happened yet, but I'm sure it will.

I voluntarily wear the white petti pants under my running
shorts. They are usually rolled up and hidden from view, but I
expose the lace cuffs to women every chance I get. The color
contrasts with all my shorts, so they're very obvious. The
shocked reactions I get from strange women are priceless. As
much as I've been humiliated wearing women's clothes, I will
have to admit that I enjoy the attention those lace cuffs get
me.

So, the only time I appear in public completely dressed as a
woman is at the parties, that have become monthly events. I go
the whole route with the maid's dress and all the accoutrements.
Due to Pilates and a better diet, my waist no longer requires
the cincher, so I hold my hose up with a garter belt. I have
mastered the 5" heels and can move in them efficiently. I now
have a pair with ankle straps that are definitely CFM pumps, as
is evidenced by the frequent propositions I receive at these
parties.

None of the women come right out and say it, but I know their
intent is to do me with a dildo. I have acquired the feminine
ability to successfully deflect these proposals without
offending the propositioner.

My make-up, and the styling of my new beautiful blond wig are
done by professionals at the beauty parlor the day of the party.
My wife keeps declining their persistent offers to tattoo
permanent makeup on me. I think she needs to keep that in
reserve as a threat to me.

The maid's dresses have become longer and more modest, although
still with full petticoats. I now look more like a respectable
maid, and less like a hooker. The short skirt and Viagra without
panties incident occasionally get mentioned, but hasn't
recurred. The threat of that tends to keep me in line. I always
wear a pair of my growing collection of ManTran ear rings for
these parties. Some are dangling, others just large, but all
attract attention.

Of course, these parties mandate that my body be completely
hairless below the neck, except for a patch in my crotch that my
wife likes to trim into interesting shapes.

Our sleeping arrangements are conventional, the two of us in one
bed. We do wear matching his and hers night gowns. These, along
with all my other clothing purchases, are made in person, with
me trying things on.

Sex, with me as the passive partner, is frequent and keeps
getting better. I still have to ask by dressing in panties,
garter belt, hose, and heels, which stay on while we're doing
it. I find it hard to remember what it was like to have sex with
me on top. Somehow that seems perverted. Occasionally, my wife
gets out the dildo and uses it on me.

There are a few constant reminders of my status. I always wear
the engagement ring. Years ago, when we first got engaged, my
wife said she had no desire for a ring. I recently hinted about
buying her one to match mine, but her reaction was negative,
"There is only one bride in this family and it's you."

I also wear panties at all times to remind me of my feminine
side.

I wear the ManTran medallion on a chain around my neck at all
times. It's usually covered, by a shirt, but is exposed when I
work out. I also have a lapel pin and cuff links showing the
logo. Any time a woman asks about it, I hand her a ManTran
business card. Every time I do, I can't help but think that some
poor guy won't know what hit him. My Pilates class is a
particularly fertile ground. I think every woman in the class
has gotten a card. I fully expect to see another feminized
husband show up for class someday.

The other reminder is a 20" x 24" enlargement of a full length
picture of me in my wedding dress displayed prominently in our
living room. When questioned, I try to pass it off as my sister,
with varying degrees of success.

I've sort of gotten used to this new life. There is an
incongruity in my feelings. I hated the things she did to me,
but I love her more now than I did before. She keeps telling me
I'm a better person because of the experience, and I'm starting
to believe her. Our marriage seems to be better.

That's the end of my story, I hope. We have another anniversary
coming up, and I'm hoping for no more surprises. The commission
checks from ManTran continue to roll in. My wife hasn't been
spending much on clothes for herself lately. I wonder if she is
saving for the down payment on another trip. She wouldn't do
that, would she?

Shoekisser

* * * end of messages * * *

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