DOMestic Bdsm and Female Domination

But I have worries about his examples of a teenage male asking
the girl he fancies for a dance / out on a date / or whatever.

For every "kinky" David who enjoys the second scenario there may
be a "Sensitive" Sam who has finally worked up the courage to
ask a girl out, and is then faced with the second scenario.

Sensitive Sam also feels deeply humiliated. But for him there is
nothing positive / fun / sexy about this.

Humiliation is a powerful emotion, and of course it can be
damaging if used not for fun.

Poor sensitive Sam is traumatized by what happens. It is many
months before he works up the courage to ask another girl out.
She rejects him in the nice way of scenario one, but sensitive
Sam now wonders whether she too is laughing at him. It may take
years for sensitive Sam to recover.

David's scenario 2 is a fun BDSM fantasy for those who enjoy
humiliation, but it is not BDSM because it is missing the
essential ingredient of consent.

For me to be happy with scenario 2 there would have to be some
"flirty" conversation during which the girl jokingly suggests
something humiliating, the man jokingly replies in a positive
way, she says something more serious, he replies with a subtext
of "I know what you mean, and I would love you to go further and
really humiliate me."

Of course the real world, and some people in it, can be cruel.
So I'm sure that there are women who would "enjoy" humiliating
Sensitive Sam. But that is not BDSM - it is just abuse.

The interactions between David and Christine on the other hand
are very clearly consensual. Christine has a very good
understanding of what David likes and David enjoys what happens.
Instead of David being traumatized, he gains great "pleasure"
from what happens, and as anyone who has read this digest for
many years knows, David and Christine's relationship has
benefited greatly from what they do.

When I read about men who are into humiliation not being able to
get what they would like, I feel fortunate that this is not one
of my kinks.

When I introduce my practice of Devotional Sex to a new date or
a friend, I tell them that I'm NOT into humiliation. If I get to
the stage of giving them a foot massage, during the massage I
tell them how I will do as they wish. I say something like:-

"This is all about mutual fun and not humiliation. If you tell
me to take my shirt off, and I feel that you are doing this to
humiliate me, then that is the end of things. But if later on
you have me naked, and you asked me to play with myself so that
you can enjoy watching me, and I feel that this had nothing to
do with humiliation and is just mutual fun, then this would be
fine."

Fortunately for me most women are not into humiliation. So my
words have led many otherwise vanilla women to explore what I'm
offering them, and I've often ended up naked at their feet.

As someone who will not accept humiliation, I don't think I
could give it. If I had a partner who wanted a session where she
was to be humiliated, even though we would both knew she would
enjoy feeling humiliated, I just don't think I could do it for
her.

And if I really tried, not only do I think I would feel wrong
doing this, I don't think I would be very convincing when I
spoke.

So maybe I understand how Pat/gwpm's wife feels when he wants
her to humiliate him. Maybe, like me, humiliating someone is
something that she just cannot get into.

Pat also says that his wife "doesn't like teasing and denial at
all, so I just 'want'."

If feeling humiliated is a big part of Pat's enjoyment of
teasing and denial then I have no advice for him.

But if humiliation is not needed, then I believe it is fairly
easy to arrange things so that he can get some teasing and
denial fun. But as this is no longer about humiliation, and as
I've been slammed on another forum for "excessive self
promotion", I'll say no more now.

Humiliation is interesting in that it is all in the mind. As an
earlier posting said, I woman urinating on her partner can be
just sexy fun and not be humiliating. Yet a Mistress gently
telling her partner off for bad table manners when dining with
friends may be deeply humiliating to him and provide a great
thrill.

What matters is each of us finding out what works best for us
and our partners.

An earlier poster complained about DOMestic being too extreme.
Even though what David and Christine do together is too extreme
for me, I enjoy reading about their dynamic and the pleasure
they both derive from this. Their wisdom and experience have
messages far greater than just what they do. (And I just ignore
any stories I find too extreme.)

Thanks again for a great digest!
Michael

Devotionalsex